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Mirror, mirror, on the wall.....
May 17, 2004
Who's the greatest Castles Relay runner of them all? Quite a tricky question, really. The question only occurred to me earlier today, after I'd run the Ty Hafan 5 km. Phil Cook and I were having an easy warm down run with Darren Hiscox and Gareth Davies, who'd finished first and second in the race.
Darren was talking to me about the forthcoming Castles Relay, and told me that both he and Gareth had an unbeaten record at the event and both had won a total of 10 stages. Well, as it happens, I've also won a total of 10 stages, so my thoughts turned to verifying which runner had actually won most stages in the history of the race.
I have to say that before I looked up any of my results files, my instinct told me Steve Brace. However, I first made a short-list of six likely candidates that I knew had run the event lots of times. The short list of possible winners of Greatest Castles Relay Runner of all time therefore became: Darren Hiscox, Gareth Davies, Steve Brace, Martin Rees, Shaun Tobin and myself. The result might surprise you. In the time-honoured tradition, the results in reverse order were:
6th Martin Rees: 5 Stage Wins/ 9 races contested. Career Record (Year / Position / Stage Number):
91/4/15; 92/1/11; 93/1/11; 94/4/11; 95/2/10; 96/1/3; 97/2/20; 98/1/16; 02/1/16.
5th Shaun Tobin: 7 Stage Wins / 15 Stages contested. Career record: 87/4/13; 88/1/5; 89/4/21; 93/1/21; 95/1/3 and 95/1/19; 96/1/10; 97/1/13; 98/1/6 and 98/3/11; 00/2/14; 02/4/3 and 02/3/11; 03/4/10 and 03/3/15.
4th Gareth Davies: 8 Stage Wins / 8 Stages contested. Career record: 93/1/13; 94/1/13; 95/1/11; 96/1/11; 97/1/11; 99/1/11; 02/1/11 and 03/1/14.
3rd Darren Hiscox: 9 Stage Wins / 9 Stages contested. Career record: 94/1/14; 95/1/13; 96/1/7; 97/1/20; 98/1/11; 99/1/7 and 99/1/16; 02/1/6 and 03/1/17.
2nd Steve Brace: 9 Stage Wins / 13 Stages contested. Career record: 84/3/11; 85/1/7; 90/1/15; 93/1/17; 94/1/11; 95/1/10; 96/1/14; 97/1/18; 98/1/10; 99/1/10; 00/14/10; 02/8/11 and 03/20/11.
1st Mick McGeoch: 10 Stage Wins / 20 Stages contested. Career record: 83/1/11; 84/1/11; 85/1/11; 86/1/11; 87/2/11; 88/1/11; 89/1/11; 90/1/11; 91/4/11; 92/4/11; 93/3/11; 94/6/15; 95/1/5; 96/3/3; 97/1/2; 98/3/3; 99/6/10; 00/3/8; 02/2/8; 03/1/12. Only athlete to have contested every race.
Well there you have it. Not a surprise really. I've never been a believer in false modesty. Do you really think I'd have taken all this trouble if I'd come to any other conclusion?
Comments are now closed. Sorry
Posted by Mick at May 17, 2004 12:14 AM
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Trust Mick to do half a job. I know how club members enjoy a good 'stat', and I have a few questions of my own that require answering.
1. At 50%, Mick's strike rate is clearly lower than both Gareth and Darren's. However Mick has competed for longer. Therefore, how many of Mick's stage wins were achieved between the age range for both Darren and Gareth?
2. Obviously the stage wins are split over different stages, each with a different distance and height gain. Please calculate the following;
(a) Which of the three athletes has climbed more feet (answers to the nearest inch) for each stage win?
(b) What is the average minute/miling for the runners over the their respective stage wins?
(c) As a proportion of the total team time, which runner contributed most significantly to the team effort in each year a stage win was recorded?
(d) If Mick starts stage 7 (Dolgellau to Dinas Mawdday) at 16.05 and simultaneously, Darren starts running in the opposite direction, at which point on the stage will they meet? Presume 5 minute 20 miling, an 8mph North by North East wind and take into consideration the height gain of the stage. Please show all calculations.
The first correct answer out of the hat wins a bottle of Kaliber. We are athletes after all.
Simon, I might have known you'd be the first to respond. I take the challenge by these youngsters very seriously. However, other than Steve Brace, none have ever run in the middle of the night. Everyone knows that the standard of distance running has been in terminal decline, hence Darren's and Gareth's "unbeaten" records on soft stages just don't stand up by comparison.
I could go on, and if enough space is available on the website, I will.
Exactly! It's very tricky to determine something as subjective as the 'best castles runner'. Particuarly as I remember my stage win very well (1999, after a hiatus with an injury and on a 'softer' stage with little competition - still enjoyed it though).
I think that just to be a part of the top 6 stage winners is a massive achievement in itself. Hopefully in the future you'll be having this conversation with Darren when he's preparing to compete in his 21st Castles at the age of 48!
I claim my bottle of Kaliber. Clearly as 'Darren is running in the opposite direction' he will be heading towards Barmouth and will therefore not meet Mick on stage 7.
Flippin' eck! It takes an accountant to come up with such a statement! You're welcome to a bottle of Kaliber. And here comes the really cruel punchline.....wait for it....wait for it......
If you'd taken your drinking a bit more seriously when you were younger then perhaps you'd be a little closer to my total of 10 stage wins!! After all, look what the trip to the Eldersfield Beer Race did for you!
He can't have the bottle of Kaliber, he only answered the trick question. Bearing in mind the legendary Eldersfield beer race and with the Castle's fast approaching, if Richie successfully answers the other questions I will 'upgrade' the Kaliber to a bottle of premium Belgian beer.
Anything to improve Richie's chances of notching another stage win.
such a genius that i am the best way to sort this out is for all three to do the same leg, lets say next year so you can all decide which one you will do so that there is the least amount of handycap, though you'll still have age,hight,& weight to consider
Simon, many thanks. It may be an achievement to be one of the top six best Castles Relay Runners of all time, but then it's an even greater achievement to be the best. Which I am!!
I've presented the statistical evidence. There's more. Much more. Like style, panache, charisma. Who else is there that's won a stage by six inches (1988), performed two and a half somersaults with twist in a piked position (a particularly technically difficult high tariff dive), and then given an interview in English on S4C, complaining about having to go to hospital and thus missing valuable drinking time.
Can you see anyone else doing that? By the way, I've got all of that on video, and more!!
The nearest any of the others has come is run on the wrong side of the road, incur a one minute penalty and have a run-in with Alan Thomas.
That enough for you?
In the words of Ali G "Respect" !!!! My hat is doffed in your direction!
Winning the race by six inches, my God what crossed the finish line first?
Well boys will be boys....
I think if you boys spent as much time training as chatting on the internet, you'd all be stage winners this year aswell!
P.S. I'd like to see a run off between the top 6 in this years Castles - My money is on Martin Rees.
someone is bragging again
No need to repeat, I said, no reed to repeat the comment, Alan. Members will think you're auditioning to be the new Fred Elliot off Coronation Street.
mick as you have said that winning by six inches or even 1/1000 of a second it is still a win,and its not your fault that you were running the castle's when some of the other's were in nappies. But if you compared your times to their times when you were their age, who would be the fastest?? Also if you took age related differences in to account and calculated the age ratio to give you a handicap, mick, would you be the faster runner??
Ah, what's this? An interloper! Welcome to the greatest club website in the world, Sullivan.
So you have some views on the Castles Relay, eh? Well let's examine your credentials:
First run in 1997. Still a youngster then.
1997, 14th on Stage 11. What happened? Stopped for tea and toast?
1998, 3rd on Stage 7.
1999, 4th on Stage 7 and 9th on Stage 14 for British Steel. They must have been desperate.
2000, 1st on Stage 8 beating the legendary Mick McGeoch by 1 minute and 29 seconds. Showing signs of improvement then, even though I was 44.
And, next day finished 7th on Stage 11. Must have had a few beers on Saturday night!
2002, 1st on Stage 10. Not bad.
2003, did not compete.
To summarise:
2 wins in 7 Stages. Hardly the material legends are made of, but not bad.
Observation: Has competed for Swansea, British Steel and Corus Strip Products. In other words, not fussy about who he runs for, so long as he gets a run.
Did you know that Swansea aren't running a Senior Men's team this year, Sullivan? Only a veteran's team. You must feel like a spare xxxxx at a wedding. Why don't you join a proper club for heavens sake? Our Club Secretary's details can be found elsewhere on this website. Looks like the only way you're ever going to join the contest to be the Greatest Castles Relay Runner
of all time! And, as a gesture of goodwill, we'll allow you to run for Corus Strip Products on the Sunday. Running for a team with a name like that, anyone would think you're appearing in the Full Monty!
Right, light the blue touch paper, stand well back and wait for Sullivan to retaliate!
It's like this in Croups every week!
Sullivan,
I trust that Mick's efforts to persuade you have been successful. Can I include you in the Cosmeston Relays in July? There are direct flights from Amsterdam to Rhoose on KLM and we can have a car waiting at the airport. Talk to Richie about expenses.
Sullivan will be running for Corus, and if Les Croups beat us in the King of the Mountains I'll buy you a pint.
John Collingham
I should have known not to poke my nose into someone elses website.
I appreciate that I'm along way behind in the "Great Castles Runners" rankings, but 50% of my performances have been hampered by sleeping in Newtown Leisure Centre, I think that should also be taken into account!
For your further information:
The only reason Swansea don't have a senior mens team is that they don't have any senior members, I think thats quite reasonable. I don't mind waiting till I'm 40 before I have to run 2 stages again!
Sullivan, we are a hugely inclusive club and will encourage you to "Poke your nose in" any time you want. Just as long as you don't mind the retaliation!
As for the Newtown Leisure Centre excuse, well there was a time when a certain group of runners from Barry and Vale Harriers ( where I am a Life Vice-President) used to think it a terrific wheeze to wake everyone up at three in the morning in the Leisure Centre and generally make themselves a pain in the arse! Happy days!
I thought things were more civilised these days (but then again, speaking as an old man I now need a comfy bed at the Elephant & Castle).
Looking forward to meeting all our friends from Corus - starting in the Alexander Pub in Caernarfon from around 8.30PM on the Friday night!
Given that we have established that Mick is tops, I think we could now move onto the best individual performance. Dennis Fowles charging over Caerphilly Mountain and into Cardiff in the early/mid '80s is so unforgettable that I can't remember the year. I am sure there are other performaces from the front and back of the field that would bring a misty eye to Castles fanatics.
You're right, Peter. Right first of all that I am tops (quitely frankly I'm surprised there was any dissent!), and right also about Dennis Fowles.
Let me set the scene for our readers. The year was 1984 and the clock had just finished chiming thirteen........
Two weeks before the Castles of that year, Dennis Fowles had finished a magnificent third in the London Marathon (behind Charlie Spedding and Kevin Forster)in a new Welsh Record of 2:12:12.
In the Castles of that year, there were only 10 teams competing but it was strictly a continuous relay (i.e. run through the night). Croups and Cardiff were very evenly matched at the time, Cardiff being the club with the "stars" against Croups greater "depth". The result was a thriller.
Imagine the scene at Caerphilly Castle, Jerry Cleall-Harding to run the final stage for Croups, Dennis for Cardiff. Jerry will tell you himself, everyone approached him with a look of fear. Because, even though Croups reached that stage with a 7 minute cushion, we couldn't be sure it was enough. Jerry did hold on to win by just under three minutes, but Dennis went up Caerphilly Mountain like a whippet - he was right at the peak of his formidable powers. It certainly was a race to remember, and those who were privileged to be part of it do remember.
And guess what, I've got it all on video.
I remember that run by Dennis, after the hill he looked at the Cardiff supporters and gave a thumbs up, which in Dennis language meant "I'm feeling good", in every body elses language it was "he's flying". I always thought this leg was the biggest shame to change because I'm sure that stage record would still be standing today, 20 years later.
I'd love to see that Video one day Mick. I did about three videos of the Castles. One in 87, and then 92,93. I think 92 was the lowest for us former Cardiff runners, with the infamous no show at Merthyr. They are all in the attic somewhere in Cowbridge. It would be a fun evenings entertainment to have a Castles video showing through the ages.
Mick, I wounder if you could tell me aprox, who were the the top three oldest stage winners and the top three youngest, if thats at all possible, and has a woman ever won a stage outright?
I remember winning a stage in the first ever castles relay. OK, Les Croupiers were the only team but I still won!
I forget where I ran from and to, but just remember it was very dark, and somewhere in Mid-Wales. My main recollection is sleeping for a few hours on the floor of a telephone exchange near Shrewsbury, and even nearer to Howard Brown's smelly trainers.
I definitely won a stage in about 83, when I beat Jon Hooper of Cardiff. Jon was a very good runner (2.18 ish marathon), and had a start of several minutes on me. Fortunately Jon was very frightened of cows, and he spent several minutes near Llanbadarn Fynydd frightened to move, as there was a herd of cows on the road.Shame!
I nearly won another leg around 85, when I was outsprinted by the Army runner. I think I beat Eddy Lee and Greg Newhams, but this might just be an SA fuelled hallucination.
Best of luck in the next one Croups, and may Woody rest in peace.
Does anybody know where I can get a trumpet from?
Somebody said Mick had one.
As a regular viewer of your site, it was very nice to see my name mentioned by Phil Hexter. I clearly remember the Cows!!
I too remember the legendary Dennis Fowles run over Caerphilly Mountain, it was a fantastic site to see a world class athlete in full flow. I had the pleasure of training with Dennis in the months leading up to my 2.18 Marathon. I am sure that I would not have run so fast if it wasn't for his help and advise during our training together in the late 80's.
I will be a Vet in a few months time, and would dearly love to run for the Welsh Vets at some stage, I am running again, and intend competing in a few 5K races during the summer and the Cardiff 10K in September.
Best of luck for this years Castles.
Well Jon your troubles are over for as other members of our club i have a few eccentricities.I have a gift that will help you. as other runners during our training will testify. I talk to the cows, you just let me know where you are running,training and i'll have a word with Daisy,Maisy & Umatrude.
Hey Alan, is that what you were doing this afternoon? Talking to cows instead of running the one hour track classic? Your absence didn't go unnoticed!
Hey, I think this is the most exciting "thread" we've yet seen. So perhaps I can clear up a few things. Firstly, it's great to see so many people contributing, and from so many diverse locations.
Firstly, to answer Andrew Diffey's question about a trumpet. I don't need a trumpet, you can see by the volume of messages that we have an orchestra already here, playing in perfect harmony. The Castles Relay no longer needs selling, as so many runners over the years are Castles devotees. You may not realise that Brendan (formally a Cardiff athlete, though now Les Croupiers) is contributing from Atlanta, Georgia, USA and Sullivan Smith is working in Amsterdam. And yes, it's great to hear from you all folks.
To Jon Hooper, please come in and see us when you get a chance.
To Phil Hexter, we hope to see you again this year on the Castles. I too remember sleeping on the telephone exchange floor on our pilot run in 1982, fuelled by alcohol, and, if my memory serves me well, a moving speech by John Thorne.
Phil, you're on the 1984 video, telling the narrator than you're about to run over Cross Foxes to Dinas Mawddwy and looking absolutely terrified!
To Andrew Palmer, who's always an inspiration, I hope the One Hour went well for you, however, Alan Mann was at Sutton Park, contesting the National 50 Kms. Champs. So we hope he had a good run, too!
To Brendan, great to hear from you, and I'd love to see your Castles Video collection too!
And so to Nick, and his questions! I'll have a closer look when I get more time. 20 years Castles Results effectively means over 400 races to strutinise!
However, some memories, and possible answers. Martin Rees's last win, in 2002 was achieved age 49 years and 3 months.But here's two interesting "near misses". Last year, on Stage 5, Sandy Johnston finished in second place, just 12 seconds behind the stage winner, aged 54!
The 1987 race was held in the worst conditions, a gale force southerly wind. In other words, a headwind on most stages. This made for some very interesting tactical races, that looked more like "In-Line" skating than running events. Each field looked to the observer like a giant "Conga". Stage 1 that year featured Steve Jones, running for Newport. But because of the exposed nature of the course, he couldn't break away from 17 year old Paul Massey of Horwich RMI. Spectators held their breath - was it conceivable the great man might actually lose?
Steve did eventually win, but more than two minutes outside the stage record.
As for the ladies, I'm fairly certain no lady has won a stage outright. The closest may be last year's stage 12, when Frances Gill finished 4th overall, just 1 minute 46 seconds behind the winner.
There's a few of you out there not going to prove anything to anyone this year if your team captains don't pull there fingers out and get their team declarations submitted. The closing date was 21st May and Mick,if you want me to name names.
And I thought everything in the garden was rosy!
However, let's not point fingers until we know where to point. Is it the team captains or the athletes themselves who are slow at committing themselves? Come on folks, running's all about committing yourself! We need to know who's running!
Thanks Andrew,but as Mick said i was at Sutton park,as 1 hour isn't long enough. 4h 18m 40ish for 50konly 3m outdide my e.t.a.
Thanks, Alan. Want to tell us a little more? How did Gil and Pam get on? Any other Welsh runners there?
I've been tryin to find the ressult on the internet cant find them so here is a rough guide Gil was a lap and a bit behind me proberbly 4h45ish well Pam new she wouldn't make the cut off time she didn't make the cut off time of the 5 mile walk/run that went on while we were running either everyone was packing up banners & scafolding comming down Gil had to make sure they hadn't put the medals away and sure enough she came trundling up the hill to a raptuas aplause(it was only me really) about 5h30. I only recognised Siri(very nice girl)who did well
Mick, anyone would think that you were only asking Alan questions to make this comments thread even longer.
Oh, the conspiracy theory, eh? Anyone would think I was simply extending this thread so that I could claim to have initiated the longest thread on the website as well as being the Greatest Castles Runner in the World? Surely some mistake?
Very briefly - and not just to lengthen this thread further. How about having the most recent thread at the top of the page - a task for Mr Weeden?
If you mean have the comments in reverse chronological order, with the newest at the top, Peter. I can do that, but I find it confusing to read replies to things I haven't read yet. For the moment, unless I hear other cries of outrage, things will stay as they are.
I think Dave is right.
The clock on this sight is still on gmt though
I've got one for you Mick how many of the original castles runners are still in?
Back to Castles nostalgia and the days of sub 20hr finishing times. Mick I think you should now give us your Castles all time all Wales all comers drea team, but you can only nominate yourself as best Castles runner ever for one stage.
Alan, without checking any facts, I'd name both Jeff Aston and Mick himself, if you're talking about unbroken sequences. There may be other Croups, but you have to remember that, in the early years, the race was much smaller, and the real greats (sorry, Mick), like Dennis Fowles or Steve Jones, retired long ago.
Peter, I take it that Mick is also allowed to pick his dream team as they were at their peaks, rather than as they are now. My choices would include Phil Hexter, Paul Wheeler, Dennis Fowles, Steve Jones, Huw Jones, Steve Brace, Mick, Paul Bennett, Jeff Aston (at his sub 2:30 peak), Dave Bright (ditto), Chris Miles (partly because he was my personal tutor at Cardiff, partly because he was so articulate about his heartbreak at running half marathons in 70:02 or 70:03), Shaun Tobin, Gareth Davies, plus there were guys in the army (I remember Huggy telling us on the bus that the ones with pony-tails were in the SAS) whose names I can't recall, Richie Bullen, and, because I profoundly believe a mixed team can and should win, Angharad Mair. The running order is up to someone else.
Castles memories I may be biased but Gareth D and Ken Chapman running toe to toe all the way down form Newtown was the most inspiriing way to start a castles sunday . We had a guy called Keith who was about 15 stone and drew the Drovers stage onits first run - seeing him drag himself up there was somthing . I;ve never won astage (excpet when I was first Vet into Builth) but I have done 15 different stages ( including 2 defunt ones ) as well as managing the winnign team morethan once !!
This year will be my 10th different stage though I have never troubled the winner's podium and there are a couple I have run twice. The no hills clause on my contract stands for 'nowt as I have been given Brecon to Storey Arms.
Two of my abiding memories also happen to be Bridgend runners - Ian Hamer in '84? striding out from Criccieth to Barmouth on a perfect evening. This must have been when he was just emerging as a runner with potential. Secondly, Steve Brace at or near his best powering over the climb up the Eppynt and onto Drovers.
Right, so we're on to Fantasy Castles Teams, eh?
Have a look at this one - except that this wasn't fantasy, this was reality. We may have had lots of subjective comments on this thread about the greatest runner, the best individual performance etc. I can tell you without a shadow of ambiguity that this was the greatest team yet to run the Castles Relay. The year was 1986, the first year the race became a multi-stage, 2 day event. The Newport Harriers team clocked 17:43:19, not only the fastest time recorded, but they also won 13 of the 21 stages outright. Their team, with individual positions was as follows:
John Robertshaw (1); Neil Hardee (1); James Hill (2); Neil Hosfield (1); Dave Holland (1); Colin Clarkson (1); Andrew Darby (1); Rhodri Breeze (2); Dave Powell (1); Dai Flynn (2); Kelvin Perrett (8); David Bright (6); Adrian Brown (1); Andrew Ormond (3); Ali Cole (1); Paul Lewis (1); Kenny Davies (1); Peter Jenkins (1); Norman Wilson (3); Duncan Crombie (2); Ieuan Ellis (1).
Closer examination will reveal that a certain Steve Jones wasn't even running!!
Quite a team were Newport Harriers of this era. Much of the credit for this should go to their inspirational coach, Mike Rowland.
Strangely enough, when Croupiers had their first ever meeting in the Old Arcade in May 1980 ("Twelve Angry Men!"), Mike actually attended the meeting in an attempt to get us to join Newport.
Given what Croupiers achieved subsequently, think what an outfit we would have been if we'd joined forces with these boys! Now that would have been a team!
Mick,
I'll need your help and access to archives for this one, but I think the teams I put together in 91/92/93 were pretty impressive. We had 8 or 9 sub 30 minute 10k runners both years (91,92), and 12 of the 21 went on in 93 to finish third in the twelve stage (could have won, another story). Just a quick re-cap from memory, Justin Hobbs, Eddy Conway, Christian Stephenson, Steve Knight, Dale Rixon, Dennis Fowles, Nazar Habib, Paul Wheeler, and a whole bunch of 30/31 minute 10k'ers in close attendance like Kevin Blake, Andy Pritchard, Richie Gardner, Steve Rhind, Dave Lane, Johnny Hooper etc. I'm not sure it would have handled the Newport team of 86, we had a few 33/34 minute runners at the weaker end, but there wouldn't have been much in it for my money.
Mick,
I've just spent the last half an hour reading some of this nonsense! I never realised you were so vain!! Obviously being on the organising side has helped you over the years, ensure you were on the soft legs!! How else would someone who can't run quicker than a one legged North Walian in the Vets Relays achieve that!!
On a serious note, it shows how fortunate, or clever you have been to avoid injuries over your running career.
Hi Brendan
Hope all is well over the pond. I think it was 96 that Cardiff took the Bronze in the 12 stage, I had the pleasure of running the last leg - chasing Tipton and running away from Swansea. I recall being rather nervous before hand as it was my first trip to the 12 stage and we were one of the favourites.
Hello to Bernie Jones (my fellow 118 conspirator!) Welcome to the greatest running website on the planet. You must feel so jealous.
I'll pass up on your cheap jibes about running quicker than me at Sutton Park last weekend. I'll simply say that it was great to see you competing again after your injuries. You're not a bad guy (for a track runner). Is the marathon challenge still on or are you going to defer to an obviously superior athlete?
Great to hear from you Brendan. I will E Mail personally with your teams from 91, 92 and 93 in case I am accused of deliberately prolonging this thread, which, incidentally is the first this website has initiated 50 replies!
Hi Phil,
Dates were never my strong point. I do remember switching from Castles management to 12 stage management, and come to think of it, it must have been later because I remember thinking how wierd it was to send a stronger team to the Castles than the 12 stage between 91-93. The Castles became an obsession for me to try and raise a winning team. It is the greatest event for team running in my opinion. I do remember being criticised for putting you on the last leg in the 12 stage in your first outing, but you came through well. All this chat has me checking my re-entry Visa status and flight schedules for early June. Not sure I'd make a team though...
You don't need a visa to get into this country. Just go to your home port get in a container when the orthoritys open it YOU tell them you've escaped from GB and they'll send you back.
Where have you escaped from then, Alan?
Been trying to contact Mick Mcgeoch for ages. Having just read ACE I can see how much the Welsh Castles means to you guys. Looking forward to running it for the 1st time this year, for Clevedon. Shame I'm past my sell-by date, but couldn't persuade any previous clubmates to put out a team!
And a warm welcome to "Mad Simon". We don't do things in half measures here, mate. The greatest website and the greatest relay! What else did you expect? Past your sell-by date? In what context, Simon? Remember this is also a family website, please!
Clevedon, eh? I seem to remember Clevedon performing rather well last year. And they've obviously utilised the "Transfer Window" very profitably. What was your signing on fee, incidentally? And do you have a clause in your contract for any anticipated misbehaviour during Castles weekend?
Mick,
You may be good at Statistics and Trumpet Playing but you are not good at History. The last continuous race was in 1984. If you look at the 1986 Program you will see a reference to the 1985 Race being in the format we use now.
I believe that even in those days you may have produced the program. I ran Leg 7 in 1984 and 1985 and remembered starting Leg 7 in a race which included Richard Bullen Steve Brace and I think an old AF&D runner Cunningham running for the Army Apprentices School.
You know what, Derek? You're absolutely right. The 1985 race was the first to be split into stages with an overnight stop in Newtown. I had to consult my back copies of ACE to verify it.
And once I started reading I couldn't stop. Here, for the benefit of readers who didn't know the man, is why a certain character called Jeff Wood is still so affectionately remembered by all who knew him.
Final excerpt of "One Man's Castles" -
"I try to convince Reg that his middle-class tones will be ideal for making the presentation but it seems he has already delegated the job to me. He tells me that my microphone manner is by far the best that he's ever come across. I am forced to agree.
At the Civil Service Club I am introduced to the representatives of our sponsors, Norwich Union. Suits and ties! Suddenly I feel grubby. After two days in the company of runners I'm confronted with normal people. Notwithstanding the fact that I've showered three times I feel uncomfortable. Rationalise the situation. I look around and see all the sweaty runners clad in track suits and realise that our sponsors must feel that they are the intruders. I feel better. An inferiority complex doesn't really stand a chance where I'm concerned.
It comes to the presentation and there is no microphone available. I tear Reg's beloved megaphone from his grasp and leave him sobbing as if emasculated. Say nice things about everybody. This is the part I find difficult. Still they all seem happy.
I go home for a brief rest and a bath. Change and go back to the Civil Service for a disco. Not a full house but a confrontation with the fat man brightens things up. Eleven o'clock and it's all over. I've had five hours sleep in the last sixty-four but I don't feel as tired as I should. I'm still on the "Castles high". What a weekend. This has got to be the greatest event in the world. My wife tucks me into my cot and I suck my dummy contentedly. This is my story of the Castles. There must be another 250 lying around somewhere"
Jeff Weird (1985). What a man, sadly missed.
Is that it ladies & gentlmen are we done a last call GOING GOING Gone to the guy in silly hat & shorts at 58
Not so fast, young man(n). There's an unanswered question which you posed last week. How many of the original runners are still in. Well firstly, let's tell you who the original runners were.
The pilot run was run in 1982, and for the only time started at Cardiff and went north. There were 21 runners and we were led off by Jerry Cleall-Harding, who now does such a fantastic job as Master of Ceremonies at Cardiff Castle. The running order was then 2. Mel James; 3. Jeff Wood; 4. Jeff Aston; 5. Mike Davies; 6. Maurice Prendergast; 7. Colin Davies; 8, Richard Lehnert; 9. Nigel Webb; 10. Phil Hexter; 11. Howard Brown; 12. Mark Jones; 13. Des Davies; 14. Rob Evans; 15. Paul McNaughton; 16. Sean "Flashman" Tresilian; 17. Ted Tapper; 18. John Thorne; 19. Rob Atkinson; 20. Paul Wheeler; 21. Mick McGeooch. We ran 20:38:06.It was a brilliant weekend, even without any competition.
As you can see, there plenty of names who are still very actively involved, 22 years on.
Any more questions?
Who's that last fellow? Is he a Scottish cousin of yours?
I think one of the best runs I saw was Bob Treadwell setting the course record on Buith Wells to Drovers Arms. I do not think anyone will come near it.
Always loved a relay, Castles and 12 Stage both brilliant for there own reasons!
Castles weekend was a weekend the Cardiff boys looked forward too (especially when Brendan & Tim and a few others worked hard to get everyone out!).
Anyway, I always remember castles for hot sunny days and water fights!!! (outlawed a few years ago!) , sore throats (from shouting too much!) and sore ears (people shouting in your ear hole when they passed by in cars!). GREAT FUN!
One race I would be interested in coming out of retirement for!
Keep up the good work LES C!
I have been reading with a great deal of interest, all the banter going back and forth on the subject of "Who is the greatest Castles Runner". There can be no doubt that you have an impressive history of success in the castles. I would however like to question your claim to have won the 1988 stage by six inches. I've never been one for recording statistics,keeping records of training,PB's and the like,but I can recall the 1988 Castles Relay leg in which we ran together for 13 miles on a scorching hot evening at a very respectable pace. My recollection was that as we sprinted for the line we were neck and neck. Now bearing in mind the finish of this race was a makeshift line of flower,shaped like a banana,there were no photofinish cameras only les croups officials and timekeepers.I have always been somewhat bemused by the verdict. The win was given to you by the margin of six inches.
After all the years that have passed since that race,you would probably not have heard a dickie bird from me about the injustice carried out that day. But! you just had to blow your own trumpet by claiming 10 wins and proclaiming yourself as the greatest runner in the Castles.
Come on Mick,you and I both know that there is now way anyone could have separated us that day.
Just acknowledge the fact that in 1988 you were a joint first place,not an out right winner.
Steve, great to hear from you, and it was great to see you again recently after such a long time.
Like many other runners, you have interpreted my comments literally. My intention of posting this thread was never to claim that I was better than Steve Jones, Dennis Fowles or the like. Any ranking list will confirm that I was never anywhere near them in class.
If you read the start of the thread, it was a chance remark by Darren Hiscox that set up this challenge. I've always been chopsy, that goes without saying, but anyone who knows me well will know that bravado is one thing, actually believing myself to be better than the others is another.
This ACE function is set up to promote banter, and this thread has provoked over 60 comments - thereby promoting interest in this year's race.
I think it's succeeded.
I remember on the evening of our race that you were unhappy with the verdict, and judging by your remarks, you still are. It so happens that S4C produced a documentary of the race, including our sprint finish. I have a copy of the video, which I will happily lend you.
You can dispute whether the margin was six inches if you like, but the video evidence confirms the judges view that my torso crossed the line first. And for what its worth, I still have have the scars on my right elbow to remind me what a tough fight you gave me, plus the fact that I had to go to hospital to have the elbow stitched, when all I wanted was a few beers with my mates.
Best wishes Mick
I trust that the mysterious comment maker known only as "Knighty" is a certain Mr Steve Knight formerly of Cardiff AC? We would love you to come out retirement for the Castles Steve, and love it even more if you did so in a Les Croups vest. After your recent debut in Triathlon, we could encourage you further with our fledgling tri section. May we tempt you?
course record is wrong for the first stage on sunday newtown i did run 63 minutes ?sec in 98 could you please put the records right thanks
You're spot on, Darran. It was 63:40. I'll try to make sure the 2005 programme is correct.
© Dave Weeden 2000–10.
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